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IN THE CIRCUIT COURT, IN AND FOR LEON COUNTY, FLORIDA
HARRY N. JACOBS and COPY JOHN and JANE DOES 1-NNN,
Plaintiffs,
vs. CASE NO.: 00-2816
THE SEMINOLE COUNTY CANVASSING BOARD; SANDRA GOARD; KENNETH McINTOSH; JOHN SLOOP, FLORIDA REPUBLICAN PARTY; RYAN MITCHELL; MICHAEL LEACH; GEORGE W. BUSH; RICHARD CHENEY; STATE OF FLORIDA ELECTION CANVASSING COMMISSION and KATHERINE HARRIS,
Defendants. x
THE DEPOSITION OF
MICHAEL A. LEACH
REPORTED BY: DIANNE GAGNON, CSR At the Offices of Seminole County Supervisor of Elections Office 116 West First Street Sanford, Florida November 30, 2000
APPEARANCES:
GERALD RICHMAN, ESQ. One Clearlake Centre 250 Australian Avenue, Suite 1504 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Attorney for Plaintiff BY: GERALD RICHMAN, ESQ. and
APPEARANCES: (Cont'd)
LOWNDES, DROSDICK, DOSTER, KANTOR & REED, P.A. 215 North Eola Drive Orlando, Florida 32801 Attorneys for Sandy Goard BY: TERRY YOUNG, ESQ.
MILLER, CASSIDY, LARROCA & LEWIN, LLP 2555 M Street, NW Washington, DC 20037-l302 Attorneys for Bush and Cheney BY: STEWART LEVEY, ESQ.
SHUTTS & BOWEN 300 South Orange Avenue, Suite 1000 Orlando, Florida 32801-3373 Attorney for Republican Party State of Florida
STEEL, HECTOR & DAVIS 215 South Monroe Street, Suite 601 Tallahassee, Florida 32301-1804 BY: ELIZABETH DALEY, ESQ. and JOHN SJORSTROM, ESQ.
BAKER BOTTS, LLP 9l0 Louisiana Street Houston, Texas 77002-4995 BY: B. DARYL BRISTOW, ESQ.
MARVIN ROOKS, ESQ. P. O. Box 3627 Orlando, Florida 32802-3627 Intervenor
INDEX
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Deposition held November 30, 2000
TESTIMONY OF MICHAEL A. LEACH
Direct Examination by Mr. Richman 4 Cross-Examination by Mr. Young 67 Cross-Examination by Mr. Levey 71 Recross-Examination by Mr. Young 74 Redirect Examination by Mr. Richman 75
CERTIFICATE OF OATH 87
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 88 WHEREUPON: The following proceedings were had: MICHAEL ALAN LEACH having been first duly sworn, was examined and deposed as follows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. RICHMAN: Q. Would you please state your full name. A. Michael Alan Leach. Q. What is your current address? Florida. Q. What is your occupation? A. I'm the North Florida Regional Director for the Republican party of Florida. Q. Could you tell us briefly your background. First of all, any formal education you've had after high school. A. I have a Bachelor or Science degree in criminology, and minor in political science from Florida State University. Q. What year did you get that? A. 2000. Q. So you're a very recent graduate? A. Yes, sir. MS. DALEY: Can you all speak up, please. Q. What is your age? A. Twenty-nine. Q. That's normally a little older than somebody first graduating college. Were you employed before you graduated? A. Yes. After high school I joined the United States Air Force. Q. How long were you in the Air Force? A. Two years. Q. And after you -- A. Still in. Q. Pardon? A. I'm still in the reserves. Q. After getting out of the Air Force, what did you do? Did you go right back to college then, or what? A. No, sir. Q. What did you do in the interim? A. Just worked odd jobs. Q. Pardon? A. Worked odd jobs and I was younger and I was married. Q. What kind of jobs? A. Security job, when I was younger. MS. DALEY: I can't hear in Tallahassee. MR. WRIGHT: Michael, do me a favor. She's on the speak phone which is voice activated, so you need to speak almost at the volume I am. And Remember on speed, this young lady over here is trying to get down everything you say. MR. LEVEY: Talk slow. Take it slow A. I also was in law enforcement. Still currently am a reserve Sheriff's Deputy. Q. Reserve Sheriff's Deputy for what area? A. Jefferson County Sheriff's Department. Q. And where is Jefferson County located? A. Monticello. Q. How far is that from Tallahassee? A. Twenty-seven miles east. Q. How long have you been doing that? A. Almost four year. Q. Is that a part-time job? A. It's reserve. Q. Explain what that means? A. It's a -- The reserve unit is used to back up full-time deputy sheriffs. Q. You go through any like police academy training -- A. Yes. Q. -- or something else for that? A. I'm fully certified by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. Q. And when did you do that? A. March of 1995, I was certified. Q. Other than security and this reserve law enforcement position, what other kinds of jobs have you held? A. I was a -- While I was in college, I worked FSU Police Department. I was a DJ on a station, country station, 94.9 WTNT in Tallahassee while I was in college. Q. Now after -- A. Part-time. Q. You said you graduated the year 2000, what month? A. April. Q. When did you become actively involved in the Republican party? A. Within a week. Q. Had you been actively involved in the Republican party in any capacity prior to your graduation? A. No. Not with the Republican party of Florida. Q. Were you involved in a Republican party somewhere else? A. Not as a paid member. Volunteer with the Leon County Republican Executive Committee. Q. Let's take that through. What involvement, other than as a paid position, but in terms of a volunteer position, tell us what your involvement has been as a volunteer with regard to the Republican party of Florida? A. As a volunteer, nothing. Q. Okay. A. With the Republican party of Florida. Q. How about with regard to other Republican party branches, whether they be city, county, or otherwise? A. Just a volunteer on the board with the Leon County Republican executive committee. Q. What period of time did you do that? A. I'm still on, still currently involved with the Leon County REC. Q. And when did you get involved in that? A. 1999, '98, I don't have the exact date. Q. Have you always been a registered Republican? A. Yes, sir. Q. And when you went to work -- when you went to work for the Republican party of Florida, what position did you take? A. The North Florida Regional Director position. Q. And are you a full-time paid employee? A. Yes, sir. Q. What does the North Florida Regional area covered? A. Eight counties. Q. What are those eight counties? A. Madison, Jefferson, Taylor, Wakulla, Liberty Gadsden and Leon. Q. So I take it Seminole County is not in anyway included; correct? A. No, sir. Q. Meaning I'm correct. A. You're correct on that assumption. Q. Thank you. Have you, by the way, ever been involved as a Plaintiff or Defendant in a lawsuit? A. No, sir. Q. In other words, you've never sued or been sued; correct? A. No, sir. Yes, sir, that's correct, sir. Q. And with regard to you're position as Executive . . . Executive Director, what does that generally entail? A. I'm not an Executive Director. Q. I'm sorry, I apologize if I misspoke. Regional director. What does that generally entail? A. Coordinating Republican programs for each individual county, namely phone bank programs, absentee ballot programs, including getting, when rallies come to town, people have rallies, you go coordinate that kind of thing. Basically interacting with the Supervisor of elections in each county, and the chairmen or chairwomen of the Republican Executive Committees within each of those counties. Q. You mentioned something about absentee ballots. What is your involvement, what has been your involvement in the past prior to events occurring in this case relating to absentee ballots? A. Well, when you corresponded absentee ballots programs with each county, you . . . the county chairman of each of those counties would appoint a chairperson to head up the absentee ballot program; namely, going to get names of people who request absentee ballots from each county, and they would do the mailings. Q. When you say you would go ahead get the names, how would you get the names for the request? A. I don't do that. The chair peoples in those particular counties do that; I don't know how they do it. Q. Is there a Regional Director for the Republican party of Florida that would cover the Seminole County area? A. Yes. Q. Who is that? A. Carlos Melendez. Q. And what counties is covered by Carlos Melendez, to your knowledge. A. To my knowledge, Seminole, Osceola, Volusia, Orange, Q. Excuse me. A. I believe that's it. I'm not totally sure of all his counties. Q. And do you have contact with him on a fairly regular basis? A. Yes, sir. Q. Did there -- Are there any training sessions that you've been through with regard to absentee ballots? A. Well, regarding the how the absentee ballot program works for the Republican party of Florida, we have a . . . we've had not necessarily training sessions one on one, we have a group, group training session on all the programs that the Republican party of Florida has to get out the vote. Q. How about with regard to procedures on how to request absentee ballots and what happens when a request is made. Is there any training on that? A. The request is made through the Supervisor of Elections. Q. Okay. And do you become familiar with the statute and the statutory requirements regarding absentee ballots as part of your training? A. The general . . . the general some of the laws we know familiar with . . . we are familiar with. Q. And you're familiar with the fact that the law requires with regard to an absentee ballot request form that you have to have certain information on that form; correct? A. I wasn't aware of that. On the actual request forms, I wasn't aware of particular information that was required by law, no. Q. So you didn't go -- Did you go through any kind of a training procedure? In other words, did they give you classes, did they give you a manual or something else, to get you to understand what the statutory requirements were for an absentee ballot request form? A. No, not for request forms. Q. What did they tell you about absentee ballots in general; do you recall? A. Yes. Q. Tell us that, please? A. Have -- Have the witness and signature has to be filled out correctly. The general, the general information required for an absentee ballot. But as far as the request forms, we don't have training classes on request forms. Q. Did it tell you anything about anything about the requirement for the voter identification -- A. No. Q. -- registration number? A. No, sir. Q. How about Social Secutiry numbers, or the last four digits of the person's Social Security number? A. Supposed to be required on the ballot, from what I understand, on the outside of the ballot. Q. And how about with regard to the absentee ballot request form, you didn't know anything about that? A. No, sir. Q. And how did you first get involved in Seminole County, relating to this election? A. My boss asked me to come down here. Q. Okay. And what's your boss' name? A. He's the political director, Todd Schnick. S-C-H-N-I-C-K. Q. And he's located in Tallahassee? A. Yes, sir. Q. By the way, who have you met with in preparation for your deposition here today? A. Ken Wright, Stewart Levey, and Dale Bristow. Q. And who? A. Mr. Bristow. Q. Anyone else? A. Bryant, I'm not sure his last name. MR. YOUNG: Mr. Applegate. A. That's right. Q. When did that meeting take place? A. One was last night, one was this morning or this afternoon. Q. Where did you meet last night? A. I don't know the name of the office complex. Q. Where was it, what city? A. It was Orange County. Q. Prior to that meeting last night, did you meet with any other lawyers regarding your testimony here today, or any of the issues involved in this case? A. Yes. Q. Who else did you meet with? A. Stewart Levey. Q. And when did you meet with him? A. Tuesday night. Q. Stewart Levey represents you? A. He represents the interest of the Republican party right now. Q. Does he represent the Republican party. MR. LEVEY: He doesn't know the answer to that. A Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. Q. Does he represent you personally? A. Yes. Q. On what basis, how have you retained him? A. By the Republican party of Florida. Q. Has retained him, as you understand it, to represent you? A. As I understand it. Q. Have you ever seen a letter or anything in writing to that effect? A. No. No, sir. Q. Prior to you meeting with Stewart Levey, who else did you meet with, if anyone? MR. LEVEY: Who else? Are you talking about lawyers now, Jerry, right? MR. RICHMAN: Yeah. Any other lawyers. A. Individual named Kirk VanTyne. Q. Who is that? A. I'm not sure what firm he's with. He's an attorney up in Tallahassee at the moment. Q. Who is he representing? A. I don't know. Q. Was he representing you? A. He spoke to me about the case and advised that Stewart would represent me. Q. Other than the lawyers that you've named that you've mentioned, -- First of all, by the way, was anybody else present during any of these meetings with either Stewart Levey or this gentleman named Kirk, or the meeting that you had last night? A. Anybody else besides those individuals, no. Q. Yes. In other words, anyone besides lawyers, present in any of those meeting? A. Jim Stelling was in the meeting last night. Q. And who is Jim Stelling? A. He's the Vice Chairman of the Republican party of Florida. Q. Had you met Mr. Stelling before? A. Yes, sir. Q. Now other than those meetings that occurred with lawyers and the meeting that occurred with lawyers and Mr. Stelling present, have you had any other meetings with anyone else regarding any of the issues involved in this case -- A. No, sir. Q. -- relating to Seminole County? A. No, sir. Q. Have you talked to anyone else about it? A. Well, my family would ask me about it when they'd read it in the papers. Q. Other than family? A. No. Q. Other than immediate family. All right. You now told us that Todd Schnick called you. When was it that he called you relating to Seminole County? A. Tuesday, October 17th, I believe the date was. Q. Where were you when he called you? A. Tallahassee Florida. Q. What did he tell you when he called you? A. He asked me to leave the next day and go to Seminole County Supervisor of Elections office and correct a mistake that the Republican party of Florida had made on absentee ballot request forms. Q. Did he tell you how he wanted you to, quote, correct the mistake? A. Bring my laptop with me. Q. Anything else? A. We have a Victory Suite program that has all registered voters in the State of Florida, and I was to ascertain the name on the request form and subsequently write the voter registration number on the card. The voter registration card, or absentee ballot request form, that is. Q. The Victory Suite Program that you -- MR. YOUNG: Is it suite or sweep? A. Suite. Q. I'm not sure. S-W-E-E-T; correct? A. S-U-I-T-E. Q. Okay. Okay. MR. RICHMAN: That makes more sense. MR. YOUNG: Yeah. Q. And the Victory Suite Program is -- Shall we call it a database that has every registered voter in the entire state in it? A. Yes, sir. Q. So it includes whether they are Republicans or Democrats; correct? A. That's correct, sir. Q. And that was stored on your laptop computer? A. Yes, sir. Q. When you came down here to Seminole County, you were acting on behalf of the Republican party; correct? A. That is correct, sir. Q. And what did he instruct you to do with regard to the Seminole County problem? First, let me ask you this: What did he specifically say the problem was? A. That the, to the best of my knowledge, the voter registration number was not included on the application for the absentee ballot, and it was the Republican party's of Florida fault. And we were to correct the mistake that we had made, taking responsibilities for our own actions, and correcting what had been a mistake of ours. Q. Were you working at that time for the Republican party of Florida, or working as a Regional Director for several counties? A. It's one in the same, sir. Q. Why is it that they did not use, if you know, the Republican party Regional Director for this area that covers Seminole County? A. I don't have the answer to that? MR. LEVEY: Wish they had. A. Yeah. Q. Did he tell you how he expected you to correct it? A. With my laptop computer in the Victory Suite program. Q. Did he tell you what you were going to be doing, though, with your laptop computer and Victory Suite program? A. As I said before, ascertaining the number from the voter, prospective voter, and correcting the form that we had sent out by including the voter registration number on the form that we had sent out that was missing. Q. Did he tell you on what basis he said -- Rather, did he tell you on what basis you could go ahead and supply that information after the fact and after it had already been submitted? A. He didn't specific he get into specifics no. Q. So he just said go do it; correct? A. That's affirmative, sir. Q. From your -- Have you spoken to him before, in terms of knowing how experienced he is with regard to the law involving elections? A. I have full faith and confidence in Todd Schnick's abilities regarding the law and elections; he's been in politics for a long time. Q. So you just did whatever it is he told you to do, in effect? A. I'm a military man, I follow orders. Q. And your orders from Todd Schnick, who is the political director for the Republican party of Florida, were go down to Seminole County, bring your laptop, get those absentee ballot request forms that had been sent out by the Republican party of Florida, and add the voter identification number to all of them; correct? A. Correct. The voter ID number that was missing on the request forms. Q. And did you look to see -- Did do you that for Democrats as well as Republican? A. Yes. Q. Okay. How many of them Democrats, how many were Republican? A. I don't have an exact number. Q. Have you even an estimate as to how many -- A. Forty to fifty cards that were Democrats. Q. Forty to fifty Democrats out of a total number of cards of how many? A. I have -- I don't have the actual figures for the amounts of cards. Q. Now, when you say there were forty to fifty, can you go back over those cards and tell us which ones were the estimated forty to fifty Democrats? A. No, I cannot. Q. Can you tell us the total number of cards that you put that information on? A. I don't have the exact figures. Q. Did you bring anyone else with you at any time to assist you? A. Carlos Melendez came in one afternoon for about an hour to help me because of the amount of, amount of cards that had been there, that were there. Q. So when you had the local Regional Director who covered Seminole County also come in and write on cards? A. We separated the cards into precincts, and then he left. Q. Did he do any writing on any of the cards, or just simply assist you in separation? A. He may have written on one or two, but the majority of time he was here, he was only here about an hour-and-a-half, it took about an hour-and-a-half to separate all the cards into precincts. Q. Did anyone else ever come in to help you? A. Waldy. He's one of our other Regional Director, he was here for fifteen minutes. Q. Who's Waldy? A. He's Regional Director for St. Lucie County and that area there. [Walde Serrano] Q. What is his full name? A. I can't pronounce his last name. He's a -- I don't know how to pronounce his last name. Q. Did anyone else come in -- A. No. Q. -- during -- A. No, sir. Q. Approximately how many days were you here? A. Guestimation, fifteen. Q. What do you base your estimate of fifteen days on? A. It was that Thursday, following the last presidential debate which was on a Tuesday, and I stayed until the following Thursday before the election. Q. So you left here on the Thursday before the election, the election being November 7th, you would have left here, what, on November 2nd? A. I believe that's the correct date. Q. And how did you get the absentee ballot request forms to make changes to them? A. Which initial period. Q. At any time. When you first arrived how did you get them? A. When I first arrived at the Supervisor of Elections office in Seminole County the absentee ballot request forms were in a paper box on the table in the back room, in rubber bands. Q. And were they only the Republican once, sir, or were there others included in that box at the time you first saw it? MR. LEVEY: Can you clarify Republican ones, because now -- Q. The ones that were the, whatever it is, the Republican party mail-out, or were there other in there? A. The ones the Republican party of Florida mailed out were included in the box. Q. Did the box that you had in that room included other absentee ballot request forms? A. No, sir. Q. Besides the Republican ones? A. If no, sir, the Republican request forms was the only request forms in that particular box. Q. What did the box look like? A. A paper box. Q. And how many forms with in there at the time you saw it, approximately? A. There were a lot. I don't have an exact number. Q. Hundreds, thousands? A. I would in my guestimation say the first day, I would guess over a thousand. Q. And what happened to that box, as you had it back there? In other words, did the box remain there in that back room, or was it brought back out? A. The box was remaining -- The box remained in the room. Q. Did anybody ask you for identification when you arrived here? A. No. Q. And did anybody stay with you and watch you all the time that you were here? A. I did not have twenty-four hour supervision. Q. You weren't -- How many hours a day were you here? A. I was here from the time they opened until the time they closed. Q. And at times that you were here, did they have partial staff, as opposed to full staff? A. From my best of my recollection, every staff member employed by the Supervisor was here in the building. Q. And were you here on weekends? A. Yes, sir. Q. Saturdays and Sundays? A. Yes, sir. Q. And how late did the office stay open at times when you were here? A. Five to six p.m. Q. Did it ever stay open after six p.m.? A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Were you ever here after six p.m.? A. No, sir. Q. And how long were you here on Saturdays and Sundays? A. From the time they opened until the time they closed. Q. And did the room that you had in the back, describe that room for us, please, where the box of the absentee ballot request forms were that you were given. A. The room was a two large tables with computer equipment on the tables. The computer equipment was always turned off. And I sat there with a chair with my laptop, and ascertained the voter ID numbers for the cards that we had mis . . . incorrectly had been printed. Q. When you say you sat there with a chair, did you have a desk there, a table? A. I sat there with a table, sir, yes, sir. Q. So you had not merely a chair you had a chair, you had a table, and you had the box containing in absentee ballot request forms that had come in from the voters; correct? A. That is correct. Q. And you then had -- I want to make sure of this. You're telling us the total amount of time anyone else was there was roughly an hour-and-a-half for this fellow named Carlos, and I think you said fifteen minutes for Waldy? A. Fifteen to thirty minutes, he wasn't there very long at all. Q. What did he do when he was there? A. He helped me look up about fift . . . ten to eleven cards and that was it, he went home. Q. Helped you -- What do you mean by helped you look them up? A. Looked up the voter registration number for the absentee ballot request form. Q. From the computer? A. Exactly. From his laptop computer. Q. So would every card that you added the voter . . . to which the voter registration number, rather, was added, on the ones that you had access to, been in you handwriting, as opposed to anyone else's? A. I can recognize my own handwriting. Q. Did anybody else, to your knowledge, of these two other individuals write anything on the cards? A. I have -- To my recollection, I don't know. After they left my sight, I don't know where they went. Q. How about -- But I'm asking you about the two people that were there, the two other regional directors that you mention? A. Correct. Q. Did they write anything on any of the absentee ballot request cards? A. The numbers. Q. They did write numbers? A. They wrote the numbers and they put them in the pile that I had already made for that particular point in time for the corrected ballot forms. Q. And did you -- A. Correct . . . absentee ballot request forms. Q. -- and do you know how many they wrote on? A. Ten to fifteen to twenty total. Q. How do you know that? A. Because they weren't there very long. Q. Could it have been more than that? A. I would guess no. Q. And what kind of a pen did you use? A. A ball point pen. Q. Did it have any particular color ink? A. Black, blue, I didn't -- I don't recall the color. Q. Was it red? Did you ever use a red pen to do it do any of those? A. I don't remember. That wasn't -- The color of the pen wasn't something I was paying attention to at the time. Q. But you might happen to remember if you used a red pen, is the reason I'm asking. Did you use a red pen, to your knowledge? A. I don't recall. Q. Have you -- Are you very computer literate? A. About average. I can turn a computer on and -- I can turn my computer on, my laptop. Q. But you can do more than just turn it on. You can find it, -- A. I can open a program on my computer. Q. Do you have a web sight? A. Do I, personally, have a web cite. Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. And just -- Do you know what kinds of things are on your web site? A. Foreign policy-type things. I'm an admirer of the Nixon foreign policy, the Truman foreign policy. Q. Have you indicated at any time an intention to run for public office? A. Yes. Q. On that web site? A. Yes. Q. What office did you indicate you were going to run for? A. At the time I believe -- I didn't -- I don't think I actually specifically named an office. Q. Have you ever run for public office? A. No. Q. What did you do with the cards after you filled the voter identification registration numbers on the cards? A. I put them in a stack next to me. Q. And then what happened to them, do you know? A. One of the employees of the Supervisor's office came and took them away from me. Q. Was there ever a representative of the Democratic party back there with you? A. No. Q. Do you have any evidence indicating that you filled in registration numbers for registered Democrats? A. That, I do. Q. And tell us what that is? A. Well, some of these absentee ballot request forms, when I looked up the name, that person was a registered Democrat. I filled in the number, as I have with all the other previous ones, and put it in the stack and went about my business. Q. Can you identify a single person who is a registered Democrat whose absentee request form you filled out? MR. LEVEY: You mean sitting here without his computer -- MR. RICHMAN: Yes. I'm asking if he -- MR. LEVEY: -- can he remember any names, is what you want? MR. RICHMAN: Excuse me. Object to form, please, and not get into discussion. Q. Can you identify any? A. Particular name? Q. Yes. A. No. Q. How would you go about identifying a particular name? If you wanted to establish there was even one registered Democrat who you had, in fact, filled out a card for? A. We'd have to go through every single card, and rerun the name for every single card until we found the Democrats that I had followed their wishes and gotten them a filled out, or corrected their request forms by adding the voter ID number. Q. Were you instructed to do that for Democrats by your party? A. I was instructed to correct our mistake. Party affiliation does not matter. Q. And the only way that we could determine whether or not your statement that you actually did it for Democrats as opposed to just Republican, would be to -- You did for some Democrats, -- would be to actually go back through all total number of cards that you altered? A. That is correct. Q. Do you have a count as to the total number of cards you altered? A. No, sir. I disagree with your statement. Q. Do you have a count of the cards on which you wrote in a voter identification number? A. No, I do not. Q. Do you have a -- Do you have any kind of a way of looking, other than looking at the cards, of making any determination as to the total number that you altered? A. I still disagree with your statement. Q. What do you disagree with? A. I didn't altered anything. Q. You added something to a card that didn't -- A. I corrected a mistake that the Republican party of Florida had made, and we were taking full responsibility for our actions. Q. Let's go back to my question. You took something that had been officially submitted to the Supervisor of Elections office; correct? An absentee ballot request form. A. Correct. Q. And when that comes in, it's the property of the Supervisor of Elections office; correct? MR. YOUNG: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. MR. WRIGHT: Object to the form. Q. Is that correct, as you understand it? A. The request form? Q. Yeah, the absentee ballot request form. A. It was in the Supervisor's office. I assume -- Q. Uh-huh. A. -- that it was the property of the Supervisor's at that point. Q. Okay. And then you went ahead and you wrote onto that form that had been signed by an elector; correct? A. That is correct, I corrected a mistake. Q. And when you wrote on that form, that that was based upon the authority of the Republican party. In other words, you were directed to do that by the Republican party; correct? A. I was directed to correct the mistakes that the Republican party of Florida -- Q. I appreciate your advocacy, -- A. Uh-huh. Q. -- I'd appreciate it if you'd answer my question. A. I did, sir. Q. You were directed to go -- MR. SJORSTROM: I'm going to object to that, he is answering the question. WRIGHT: He is answering the question. MR. RICHMAN: Guys, you can say whatever you want to, just object to the form. That's the rules here in Florida, as I understand it. MR. LEVEY: Yeah, but just ask the questions, don't argue with him. Go ahead. MR. RICHMAN: I'd respectfully note that he's arguing with me. Q. Would you now answer my question, please, sir. My question is, you, at the direction of the Republican party of Florida, added information to a document that was in the Supervisor of Elections office that was a public record and that was part of the Supervisor of Elections property? A. I corrected a mistake. Q. Is that correct? A. I corrected a mistake that the Republican party of Florida took full responsibility for. Q. When you say the Republican party of Florida took full responsibility, did they come out, to your knowledge, and announce publicly that they were doing this? A. I have no knowledge of that. I'm not on that side of the administration within the GOP. Q. Regardless whether you are or aren't, are you aware of the Republican party of Florida publicly coming out and saying, this is what we're doing. We're sending one of our regional directors into the office in Seminole County to go ahead and correct the mistake that we've made, or any words do that effect? A. I have no idea that they did that or not. Q. And do you have any knowledge if there was a problem with other absentee ballot request forms of any opportunity being given the voter, whether they be Democrats or Independents, the opportunity to come in and correct that? A. I do. Q. Okay. A. The Supervisor of Elections advised me that she would allow the Democrats to do exactly the same thing I was doing. Q. And did she ever make an offer to do that prior to October 30th, 19 -- Excuse me. -- October 30th, 19 . . . 2000, rather, to your knowledge? A. I have no knowledge of that. Q. Was there any such offer made to the Democratic party to correct a single ballot prior to the time it became publicly known on about October 30th? To your knowledge? MR. WRIGHT: Objection to the form. MR. YOUNG: Ballot? MR. WRIGHT: Are you talking about ballot. Q. Ballot request form. Thank you. A. Not to my knowledge. Q. Did anybody log you in and out, in terms of the amount of time that you spent? A. Repeat the question. Q. Did anybody make a notation when you arrived and when you left? A. I don't know. Q. Had anybody ever told you that the Republican party or anyone else had been afforded such an opportunity under any similar circumstances? MR. LEVEY: You say Republican party? MR. RICHMAN: Yeah. Q. That the Republican party had been offered an opportunity under similar circumstances to come in and, quote, correct mistakes that they had made on an absentee ballot request form? A. Which time period? Q. Ever, prior to the time you did this. A. To my knowledge, I don't know. Q. Or that the Democrats or anyone else had been afforded a similar opportunity? A. As I said before, the supervisor of elections advised me she would allow Democrats to do exactly the same thing I was doing. Q. Did she ever do that publicly to, your knowledge? A. In front of television cameras. Q. Yeah. A. Yes. From what she told me. Q. You have no personal knowledge of that, that's what you say she told you; correct? A. That's correct. Q. We need about a five minute break, because I've got a document here I need to look at. But let me suggest this. What I'd like to do for the sake of expediency here, is have you do two things. You can do that during the break. I'd like you to take one -- This is really for handwriting analysis expert. I'd like you to take one page of paper and just write anything you want down on there for samples of your handwriting, both -- Doesn't even have to make any sense. But just words, and numbers. Can you do that for us, while we take a break? A. If my attorneys okay it. MR. LEVEY: Yes. Q. Secondly, to go ahead and would you be able to get for us, with whatever redactions you want to make, copies of any of your cancelled checks for the last group of cancelled checks you received for a month. And the purpose of that, again, is for exemplar with regard to the numbers that are on there, according to our handwriting expert. Can you make that available to us tomorrow. A. I don't have that -- Q. Pardon? A. My checkbook. Q. Not your checkbook, cancelled checks that come back from the bank? A. No, I don't have that access. Q. You don't ever get any of those? A. No, I do not. Q. Do you have anything else that has numbers on there thank you would have written over the last month that doesn't have confidential information on it? A. To my knowledge, no. Q. Nothing at all in which you wrote any numbers? A. Well, I have -- My checkbook is in Tallahassee. When I pay my car payment. But my checkbook is in Tallahassee and I never receive checks back in the mail. Q. And how about anything else you've written numbers over on over the last couple months before today? A. Do my knowledge, I don't -- Top of my head I can't think of anything that I have that I have numbers written down on. Q. Have you wherein anything on a legal pad, or pad of paper, anything that would have numbers on it? A. My desk at work. Telephone numbers, that kind of stuff. Q. If you had that, you could get somebody to fax over a sheet of that for to us? A. If they can find -- My desk is pretty clustered at work. Q. Okay. But somebody could easily get that; correct? A. That's correct. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. Let me -- let's take a five minute break. Let me give you a piece of paper. And after you do that, what I'm going to ask you to do is walk into the Elections Supervisor's, or the office where the absentee ballot request forms are located, and ask you to pull out some examples of the ones that you added the numbers to. MR. LEACH: Okay. MR. LEVEY: Off the record. (Whereupon, there was a recess.) Q. When you came down here to do this, as you said, for fifteen days, where did you stay? A. A friend of mine. Q. So you stayed at a private residence? A. Right. Q. What was the name of the friend? A. Luck Givins. Q. Is he any way associated with the party? A. No. Just an old friend. Q. And what does he do for a living? A. He's a pharmaceutical representative. Q. Did you also either come back here, or stay here for the election, on the day of the election? A. In -- Q. Seminole COunty? A. I wasn't in Seminole County, I was in Orange County the day of the election. Q. The day of the election you were in Orange County, did you ever return to Seminole County? A. Yes. Q. When did you return to Seminole County? A. When they started doing the recounts. Q. And when was that? A. I don't have an exact date. Q. How close was it in terms of the time of the day of the election, do you know? A. When they started calling for the recounts of all sixty-seven counties. Q. What did you have to do with the recount? First of all, how did you happen to come here and be involved in anything related to the recount? A. My boss told me to come down here and just supervise. I mean, not supervise, just watch as a representative of the Republican party. Q. Wasn't the recount request the following day after the election, November 8th? A. I don't recall the exact day. Q. Are you familiar with the procedure that if an election is close within a certain amount that you have to have a . . . there's automatic recount? A. From what I've read in the media, that's the law. Q. So whenever it was that the recount procedure began, you returned to here to become a representative of the Republican party on the direct orders from your boss; correct? A. That's correct. Q. From anything that was told to you, or any other information you received, do you know how it was that the Republican party of Florida learned of what you've referred to as a mistake? A. I do not have that information. MR. BRISTOW: Also object to the form of the question, mischaracterizes the testimony. Q. Was this mistake that you refer to -- Strike that. Was this failure to include the voter identification number on the preprinted forms sent out by the Republican party of Florida local or statewide? A. From what I understand, we sent out request forms statewide. Q. So were they wrong all over the state, or wrong in only part of the state, or do you know? A. My recollection is all the voter ID numbers were absent, from what I understand. Q. To your knowledge, were any voter ID numbers preprinted on any of the forms sent out by the Republican party? A. From what I've seen of an actual form, one card had one, one card did not have it. Q. Are you referring to in a particular mailing, they put one card with it and one card without it, or what? A. That's correct. There was two, apparently the form that was sent out, there was two request forms attached to the document, one of the particular cards had the preprinted ID number, the other request form did not have the preprinted ID number. Q. And your belief is that that was what was done statewide; is that correct? A. My belief is that is correct. Q. Was this procedure of sending somebody into the office of the Supervisor of Elections that occurred here in Seminole County which you participated done anywhere else in Florida? A. I have no recollection of -- I don't know. Q. Have you even heard from any source that it was done in any other counties in Florida? A. I haven't heard of any source. Q. Do you know, then, how it is this procedure of failing to include the voter identification number on the preprinted forms by the Republican party was handle elsewhere in Florida, if it was? A. From what I understand, the Supervisors of Elections in other counties went ahead and processed the request for the ballots on their own. Q. And -- A. But I cannot comment for all sixty- six counties. Q. And this is something you've heard, you have no personal knowledge of; correct? A. That's what I've heard. Q. And you have no personal knowledge of it; correct? A. Not firsthand witnessing knowledge, no, I do not. Q. That's what I'm asking. And from what you've heard, what's your source? A. My supervisor. Q. And that's? A. Todd Schnick. Q. Were absentee ballot request forms sent out by the Republican party to every single registered Republican in every single area, or just selected registered Republicans? A. I don't know. Q. Who would know that? A. Todd Schnick. Q. Do you know the difference between what's referred to as a casual voter, a person who hardly votes or doesn't vote very often, and the voter who votes regularly? Have you ever heard that distinction discussed? A. Am I correct in assuming a person who would wrote in the primary runoff and general election; correct. Q. Correct somebody who votes regularly versus the person who rarely votes. A. I understand that to be a person who would maybe not vote in primary and a runoff, but would vote in a general election. Q. Doesn't the Republican party, to your knowledge, have a database basically that shows the likely voters are versus those who are unlikely to vote? A. The Victory Suite program that we referred to earlier. Q. Did Victory Suite program is something that is direct to the less likely voter; isn't that the case? A. All voters. Q. Pardon? A. It has all voters in there, and the voter history of each voter. Q. Okay. And with regard to the absentee ballot request forms, are they targeted for less than all voters? A. I don't have that information. Q. Do you have information that they don't go to every single registered Republican voter, but only to some of the Republican voters. MR. WRIGHT: Object to the form. A. I don't have that information. Q. You mentioned earlier that you had some interaction with the Supervisor of Elections offices; do you recall that? A. The interactions with? Q. Part of your duties are you interact with the Supervisor of Elections? A. That's correct. Q. And under what circumstances and how do you interact with the Supervisor of Elections? A. With Sandy Goard personally. Q. I don't know. I'm -- A. You mean -- Q. I'm asking you to explain what you mean by interact with the Supervisor of Elections which is part of your duties? A. In which counties. Q. Anywhere. MR. LEVEY: Talking generally now, right? MR. RICHMAN: Generally. MR. LEVEY: Talking in general question. A. I would interact with them on ascertaining how many people have requested absentee ballot by the Democrats, Republicans and other parties, and information such as that. Numbers type. Especially towards the last two weeks of the general election you're ascertaining the numbers every day of how many Democrats, how many Republicans and how many Independents and so forth have requested absentee ballots. Q. How do you get that information? A. You call the supervisor and you ask them and they give it to you. Q. What conversations did you have with Sandra Goard upon arriving here? A. General conversation, generalities, pleasantries, hello, how are you. I don't have any specific conversations, uhm, regarding a certain instance. Q. Did you ever introduce to her or identify to her either of the two other people that you mentioned, the other regional directors who were here brief period of time, according to your testimony? A. She knows both Waldy and Carlos, from what I understand, personally. Q. So she would know both of those people who came into the back to assist you? A. That's correct. Q. She would have been aware of the fact that they were here to assist you at the time they were here? A. That's correct. Q. Did you observe her speaking with either of them when they came in? A. Not when they walked in the door. Q. But at any time -- A. If she would come back into the back, she would, initial pleasantries, hello, how are you. Q. So she clearly knew who they were? A. Clearly. Q. Do you know anybody by the name of either Ryan Mitchell or Ryan Metzler? A. I know Ryan Metzler. Q. Who is Ryan Metzler? A. I believe he is the assistant finance director for North Florida or Central Florida, he's in the financial part of the republican party. Q. Did he ever come here to Seminole County, to your knowledge? A. He was here during the recounts. That's the only time I saw him was during the recounts when we were here. Q. And did Sandra Goard, by the way, in regard to the two gentlemen you mentioned, I believe Carlos and what is it? A. Waldy. Q. Waldy. Refer to them by name when they were here? A. From what I remember, yes. Q. Had any -- Did you ever have dinner, or lunch or anything with any of the employees of this office during the period of time that you were here? A. No, sir. Q. And with regard to Ms. Goard, did she ever talk to you about anything relating to the absentee ballots or how they were doing on the corrections while you were here? A. No. Q. And did any employee of the office talk to you about anything relating to absentee ballots while you were here, the entire fifteen days you were here? A. That's a broad question. Q. Well, I understand that. And I'm trying to -- A. You need to be more specific. Q. I'm trying to ask you if you can remember anything specific of any conversation. I'm asking you a general question. Did anybody discuss anything with you that you can recall relating to absentee ballots while you were here? A. Absentee ballots, no. Q. How about absentee ballot request forms? A. Other than here are more forms that came in the mail today. Q. Who is it that would say that? A. Dennis. Q. Did anyone else hand you absentee ballot request forms other than Dennis? A. There was one particular lady who brought a few, I don't know her name, she brought me several on one or two days. But Dennis was the majority . . . was the individual I dealt with the most. Q. Was he also the one that collected the absentee ballots request forms from you after you had added the voter identification number? A. Either Dennis or the supervisor herself. Q. So Sandra Goard actually came and collected some from you as well? A. Occasionally. She would come back if she was there and I had corrected forms, she would take them. Q. Were any of the forms that you received returned without the voter identification number being placed on there? A. Returned to the Supervisor? Q. Yeah. A. That's yes. That's correct. Q. So there were some that you didn't have a voter identification number added to it; is that correct? A. There were some people I couldn't find in the database. Q. And if you couldn't find them in the database, you just returned them without the information being added; correct? A. I would ascertain the information, another . . . another way to ascertain it. Q. How else could you ascertain it? A. I would write the name and phone number down of the prospective voter on a piece of paper of the cards I could not find. I would take them to the phone bank, volunteers in Orange County, where I went on some days to assist the Orange County mail room, and the volunteer phone bank people would call the prospective voter and advise them they need to call the Supervisor of Elections office in Seminole County to give them their voter identification number, or the application could not be processed. Q. How many would that happen with. A. I don't have a specific number. I would guess eighty. Guessing. Q. And you can't identify any of those; correct? A. No, sir. Q. With regard to Stewart Levey, when you say he represents you, have you employed him or retained him? A. The Republican party of Florida is dealing with that information. Q. Well, I'm asking this question because as I understand it Mr. Levey and his law firm, the Miller, Cassidy, and Lewin firm have appeared on behalf of Bush/Cheney, but not appeared on behalf of the Republican party of Florida. So I'm asking you if you know on what basis you say that he has been retained to represent you? A. I don't have the technical information of how they were retained and who's paying them. MR. RICHMAN: Mr. Levey will you state for the record your position on that, as to whether you, in fact, represent not only Bush/Cheney, but specifically represent Mr. Leach? MR. LEVEY: I have appeared in this lawsuit representing Governor Bush and Richard Cheney. The relevant point for this deposition is that Mr. Leach's perspective that I represent him. MR. RICHMAN: That may be his perspective, but do you, in fact, represent him? MR. LEVEY: For purposes of this deposition, I do. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. On what basis do you represent him, just for the purposes of the deposition? MR. LEVEY: I don't -- I think you should continue the deposition. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. Let me then note for the record that it would be my intention to take the position, and I don't want to waste time here on it because I understand -- MR. LEVEY: You only have ten minutes to go. MR. RICHMAN: -- I understand your position, that I would ask him questions relating any and all discussions that he had with you on the basis that it was not protected by the attorney-client privilege. So I intend to take that matter up with the judge and reserve the right to bring Mr. Leach back under the circumstances. I don't want to belabor it now or take the time to do it. MR. LEVEY: Okay. Go ahead. MR. RICHMAN: Unless -- Excuse me. Unless you're taking the position that I'm waiving the opportunity to have Mr. Leach back, unless we call the judge right now. So the -- MR. LEVEY: You're not waiving anything, except that I do think that we will stand on our limitations for the time period of this deposition. S, other than that, no I don't think you're waiving anything at all. MR. WRIGHT: On behalf of Mr. Leach, I do represent him, I have appeared in his behalf. And I would state that it is apparent to me both for this deposition and prior conversations with Mr. Leach, that he is very upset, very concerned, particularly with the fact that he has heard, rumors read articles and, in fact, pleadings that would suggest that he has committed a felony. He's a law enforcement officer, he has been under tremendous pressure in the campaign, and I doubt very seriously if Mr. Leach now or at relevant times in the past was capable of making a distinction of who was representing him, and may have made remarks to those persons, in fact believing that they did represented him. That's all I have to say. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. I move -- MR. WRIGHT: Let's proceed. MR. RICHMAN: I move to strike the comments of counsel, but that's the all the more reason why I think we have the right to examine him with regard to all conversation with regard to Mr. Levey, and I assume that Mr. Leach is not going to answer those questions without instructions from the Court; is that correct. MR. LEVEY: That's correct. MR. WRIGHT: That is correct. MR. RICHMAN: I don't want to belabor it, we'll take that up with the Court, and I presume we'll have to take it up tomorrow. Hopefully we can do that by telephone conference. Let me take a look at the cards that we have here. MR. YOUNG: Keep them in that order, please. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. You want to have these marked. What I've asked for, so the record will be clear here, is a sample of cards that as I understand it Mr. Leach has added the voter identification numbers to; is that correct? MR. LEVEY: I think you should ask him, because he -- MR. YOUNG: We just pulled a sample. We pulled a sample. MR. RICHMAN: Let me ask you this. Is the sample that you pulled totally random, or -- MR. YOUNG: Totally random. We walked in the room, and we were trying to -- We just went up to a box and we happened to find those in sequential order that had handwriting on the front. And rather to make it easy, since they are kept in alphabetical order, I selected all of those that happened to be in that sequential order. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. MR. YOUNG: That's about as random as I can come. MR. RICHMAN: Except -- MR. YOUNG: That's why I asked to keep them all in order. MR. RICHMAN: Any reason why all they're all Vietnamese. MR. YOUNG: That's what I walked up to, was the N. I guess I walked up to the NG's. Q. Okay. I'm going to hand you -- Let's see. We have one, two, three, four, five, six. The only problem I've got is pronouncing the name. MR. YOUNG: I think it's pronounced Gwen. MR. RICHMAN: I think it is too. Q. Let's take the first one, it's Andrew A. Nguyen, which is spelled N-G-U-Y-E-N. And the next one is Diem, with the same last name. K-H-U-O-N-G, with the same last name. Patricia, with the same last name. Sean, S-E-A-N, with the same last name and T, that's T period, with the same last name. And ask you if you can identify those as being absentee ballot request forms on which you added the voter identification number after they were handed -- A. This is a corrected form. Q. Okay. Maybe for the record we better identify those. Let's -- A. Andrew Nguyen, I corrected the form that we sent out -- Q. Okay. A. -- on this one. Q. And That's your handwriting on the front; correct? A. I believe it is, yes. Q. Next? A. A corrected form for Diem Nguyen. Q. Next. A. Corrected form for Nguyen, last name Nguyen, first name K-H-U-O-N-G, corrected form. Corrected form for Patrisha Nguyen. Corrected form for Sean Nguyen. And a corrected form for T. Nguyen. MR. YOUNG: For the record, I'll have these replaced. I'll have a copy made just of it as it is, since the back is not significant for the purpose of this inquiry, and marked as Composite Exhibit One to this deposition. MR. RICHMAN: Let me take a quick look. And it may well be correct, we don't need the back. MR. YOUNG: Your staff should have already copied the back on previous occasions. Q. Well, let me ask you this: On the various forms that we have, in some cases I see some initials in the lower right-hand corner; do you know what those are? A. I do not, sir. Q. And that's not your handwriting; correct? A. No, sir. Q. I mean yes, sir. A. That is correct, that is not my handwriting. Q. Thank you. And where the stamp appears on here, like this one, the first one says October 24th, the one for Andrew Nguyen, was that already on there at the time you received it as having been stamp in by the Supervisor of Elections office? A. Yes, sir. Q. And I notice on some of these numbers that the number appears to be ten digits, and in other cases there are only five digits. Do you know why some of them have only five digits? A. I do not know that, sir. I was getting it directly from the database, that is what it showed, that's what I wrote down. Q. Do you know whether anyone checked these to see if they were accurate after you turned them back in? A. I don't have that information. Q. Okay. Photographs. Let's have -- By the way the composite, we'll agree to have substitution on the assumption we already have copies of those, but we can go ahead and substitute a copy. Let's do that as a Composite Exhibit Number One to this deposition. Now let me show you another, again, another composite we'll have marked Exhibit Number Two to this deposition, and ask you if you can identify those. MR. LEVEY: Show them to me before you identify them. Let me see them. A. That's the -- MR. LEVEY: No, no, no, don't say anything. Let me see them. You look at them and hand them to me, and then we'll answer. Do you have a question? Q. Yeah. My question is, can he identify those accurately depicting the room where he went ahead and made the additions of the voter identification registration numbers? A. That is the room, but the tables are rearranged. Q. Okay. Let's -- Assuming that that's the place, can you pick out on one of these photographs where it was that you sat. And we'll identify that photograph separately? A. That photograph right there. Q. Okay. The photograph, what I'm going to do is put an A on the back of the photograph you've just identified. MR. WHITTLE: Is it going to wipe off? MR. RICHMAN: Make sure it stays on here. If you can put something on there that identifies that when we're done. And this will be Exhibit 2-A. Q. And where is it that you say you sat? A. Next to that computer right there. Q. Okay. A. To the right of it. Left of it. Q. There is a chair that appears there; correct? A. That's correct. Q. Is that the chair where you sat? A. I don't recall the actual chair, it was a chair. Q. I know. But does that look like about where the chair was where you sat? A. That's affirmative. Q. Okay. So for purposes of this in Exhibit A, the area where the witness sat was, there appears to be a chair in the middle of the photograph and there's a computer in front of it; correct? A. Yes, sir. Q. Was the computer there at the time you sat there? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And is there any other place in here that depicts where you were or anyone else were besides that photograph, or is that just the one, A. A. That's just the one. It appears the other ones the furniture was rearranged. Q. While you were there, other than staff personal and the two individuals that you mentioned, did anyone else come into that room? A. No, sir. MR. LEVEY: Anyone else. You mean anybody else outside of the Board of Elections. Q. Anybody else outside of the Board OF Elections staff or the two persons WHO WERE representative of the Republican party, two other regional directors? A. No, sir. Q. Okay. Have you ever asked anyone who it was that called Sandra Goard in October? In other words, who was the one who called her to say that you were coming? A. I didn't inquire. I didn't query that information. Q. Did Sandra Goard indicate to you who it was that said that you were going to be coming down? A. No, sir. Q. Now let me show you, and please, after we get a clean copy inserted here. MR. LEVEY: Just for the record, you've been questioning for an hour now. MR. RICHMAN: I'm about done. MR. LEVEY: Okay. MR. RICHMAN: Other than the one item we'll have to reserve on. Q. I'm going to hand to you a document that is just simply off a web site. Off your web site, as I understand it -- Let me have it marked by the reporter first, please. Mark that is as Exhibit Number Three. MR. LEVEY: This will take me a minute. MR. RICHMAN: You're welcome do look at it as long as it's not being charged against me. MR. KLAUSMANN: We'll send the Court Reporter a copy without the underlines. MR. LEACH: I wrote that a long time ago. MR. LEVEY: Just don't say anything. What's your question? Q. My question is, can you identify that as being information that is currently on your web site? A. This is. Q. I'm sorry. The Grace Under Pressure part is? A. Right. Q. This is Free Republican dot COM. MR. LEVEY: Let's identify the pages that are currently on the web site and those that are not. A. One through six. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. Q. Let's be clear on the record here. The ones currently on your web site is the document that says, pages one, down in the lower right-hand corner. A. Okay. Q. One through six, Grace Under Pressure, with the photographs. That's on your web site. What about the other pages? A. One through three. Q. Uh-huh. A. Uhm, can I pose a question? MR. LEVEY: Well, you can ask me something privately, if you'd like. MR. RICHMAN: Let me just note for the record, for the purposes of this, based on my prior objection, I object to conferring with the Bush/Cheney counsel. MR. SJORSTROM: I'd just like to state on the record that based on the rapidly -- This is John Sjorstrom. Based on the rapid diminishing time we have for this, discussions about whether or not the representation is valid is a waste of everyone's time, and I would pressure that we would move on and conclude the deposition and the discussion of what's known as the web site. MR. WRIGHT: I would, I've endured enough as well I would make an objection just based on relevance, given the nature of his testimony, and would note the hour of the day and the length of this deposition and that we're spending it on this subject. MR. YOUNG: Are you about done? MR. LEVEY: Why -- MR. RICHMAN: All I want to do is have him identify it. MR. YOUNG: That's fine. Let's finish up. He's about done. MR. LEVEY: Is that on the web site? The question is are those pages on the web site? MR. RICHMAN: It's taken you a lot of time to read it. MR. LEACH: No. MR. RICHMAN: All I was going to do is hand it to him and say is this yours, and I wouldn't have any other questions others than it's his? MR. LEACH: This is not on my web site. MR. RICHMAN: Pardon? MR. LEACH: This is not on my web site. Q. Is that something you wrote? A. Yes, it is. Q. And when did you write that? A. Last year. I don't have an exact date. Apparently it was 12-20-98. Q. Okay. So the first six pages are currently on your web site. I'm sorry, the pages numbered one through six are currently on your web site, and the one that says WWW.FreeRepublican -- A. Free Republic. Q. White water. It's the Law, Stupid. By Michael Leach, is a three page document, that is something that you authored? Is that correct? MR. LEVEY: It says, -- You actually WWW.FreeRepublic. Q. Thank you. I did misread it. That does say FreeRepublic.COM. The answer is yes, those three pages? A. That's correct. Q. That is something that you authored. MR. RICHMAN: Okay. I have no other questions, except this reservation: It appears to me that the only way to segregate out what you did and what others may have done in this case is to have you go through and identify all of them. There's obviously no way that we can do it now, I'm not going to attempted to do it now, I'm simply going to reserve my right, in the event that we cannot reach a mutual agreeable stipulation. If we can reach a stipulation it won't be necessary to do that, but other than that I have to reserve the right to have you back here tomorrow, if the judge permits it, to go through all of those. And I will endeavor to get a stipulation so that we don't have to do that. That's all I have at this time. MR. KLAUSMANN: This is what the handwriting lady would like him to do, four sentences, instead of what was done. MR. YOUNG: We'll do that at the end. MR. RICHMAN: Pardon. MR. YOUNG: We'll do that at the end. MR. RICHMAN: That's fine. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. YOUNG: Q. I have a few questions, Mr. Leach, to try to get done. A. Yes, sir. Q. With regard to Mr. Richman's reservation, let's see if we can't break this down. As I understand it, who other than yourself wrote numbers, voter identification numbers on any of the absentee ballot request forms -- A. As I said -- Q. -- in question? A. As I stated earlier, Carlos and Waldy, a very bare minimum. They did maybe ten or fifteen total, that's was it. The rest were done by me. Q. And that is on the cards that did not have numbers? A. That is correct. Yes, sir. The request forms, yes. Q. There were cards that did have numbers? A. A few that had numbers I turned in just directly. Q. Do you know if there were other Republican absentee ballot request forms that had numbers that were never given to you because they already had numbers on them? A. I'm not aware of that. Q. Okay. Didn't have any discussion with anybody here at the Supervisor of Elections office about that? A. No, sir. Q. Okay. Mr. Leach, this lawsuit or its predecessor lawsuit all started about a week-and-a-half ago. Since then, you have indicated on this record that you have talked to a number of lawyers, including Mr. Levey, Mr. Applegate and Mr. Wright. At all times when you talked to those lawyers, were there any other persons present other than those lawyers? A. No, sir. Q. Did you assume that those lawyers -- A. Jim Stelling was there last night, as I said earlier. Q. Did you assume those lawyers were representing your interest? A. Yes, sir, I did. Q. In your capacity and with regards to your actions that you testified here today that were at the instance of the Republican party of Florida? A. That is correct. Q. Now you indicated that you came here at the instance of Todd Schneck; is that correct? A. That is correct, sir. Q. Did he tell you that there were voter identification numbers missing on the Republican generated request forms that needed to be completed here in Seminole County? A. That's correct. Q. Did he tell you why it was that you . . . that you needed to come to Seminole County to do that, as opposed to that in other counties. MR. RICHMAN: Objection to form. Q. Did he tell you why you had to come to Seminole County and do that, as opposed to other counties? A. Because the Supervisor of Elections in Seminole County was not going to provide the information for us. In order for the corrections to be made on our card that we made mistakes on, we had to correct, we had to take responsibility for the mistake we made and do the corrections in order for the prospective voter to be able to vote for either candidate. Q. You were in contact with the various Supervisors of Elections in the eight counties in your jurisdiction; were you not? A. During this time period? Q. Yes? A. Occasionally. I'd make phone calls to get -- Yes. Q. Were they having the same problem? A. We didn't discuss that. Q. Was it necessary for you to go to their offices or have someone to go do their offices to complete the form. MR. RICHMAN: Object to the form. Q. Was it necessary? A. I didn't go. Q. Did anyone else? A. Not to my knowledge, nobody else went. Q. Do you know whether or not the absentee ballot request forms that were sent by Republicans to the electorate statewide were targeted for super voters or people that voted in high frequency? A. I don't have that information. MR. YOUNG: Okay. Thank you. I don't have anything further. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. LEVEY: Q. Mr. Leach, have you ever met before today the Plaintiff in this lawsuit, Mr. Jacobs? A. Yes, sir. Q. When did you meet him? A. The night of the recount. Q. Where were you? A. At the Supervisor's office, out in the lobby, front of the big glass window. Q. In this building? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. And did he introduce himself to you? A. Not by name, no, sir. Q. Okay. Did he identify what -- Did he explain what he was doing there? A. He advised me that he was a Democratic lawyer representing the interest of Al Gore. Q. Okay. And he was there to observe the recount on behalf of Vice President Gore? A. Yes, sir. Q. As a lawyer acting on Vice President Gore's behalf? A. Yes, sir. MR. RICHMAN: Object to the form. Q. Is that what he indicated to you? A. Yes. MR. RICHMAN: Object to the form. Q. During the time that you spent here correcting these absentee voter request forms, did at any time you ever ask for the Supervisor of Elections help in filling out any of those cards? A. There was one instance when I went into her office with one particular card that I could not find any information on, on my database, she subsequently looked the name up, and while we were sitting there, the voter ID number appeared on her screen. I ask her if I could write it down, and hit the compute, turned the screen off and she said, no, you're not going to use county equipment to do your job. Q. Did she ever provide any voter identification numbers, or voter registration numbers to you to help you fill out the cards. A. Not one time.. Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Ms. Goard in which she discussed whether she would . . . whether she would provide similar assistance for the Democratic party? A. Yes, sir. Q. Tell us about that conversation. MR. RICHMAN: Objection. A. She advised -- MR. RICHMAN: Objection to the form. The record will reflect I already asked him about all conversations and he didn't bring that up until you're now leading him into that. I object to that. Go ahead. Q. Tell us about what the conversation was? A. She did advise she would allow Democrats to do the exact same thing that she was allowing the Republican party to do. She would provide them with a chair, and that's it. The same thing she provided me, a chair, that's it. Q. Okay. During the time that you were sitting in the back room correcting these cards, did you ever shut the door to keep people out of there? A. No, sir. Q. Were there times when people would walk through and observe what you were doing? A. The room was a constant flow of traffic due to the back room being a smoking area outside. Q. So at all times did the other employees of the board of elections have access to the room you were working in? A. Continually. MR. LEVEY: That's all I've got. MR. YOUNG: I'm sorry, I forgot to ask something I want to ask real quick. MR. RICHMAN: Be my guest. RECROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. YOUNG: Q. Did you ever access any of the computers of the room you were in, or any other room in this building other than your laptop? A. No, sir, they were turned off and left off. Q. Do you have a password to obtain access? A. No, sir. Q. Did you ever access any other documents, voting equipment, ballots, absentee ballot forms, other than the ones you were given to correct? A. No, sir. Q. Did you disturb anything in this office, that would affect any of the . . . of its operation? A. No, sir. MR. YOUNG: Nothing further. Thank you for the leeway. MR. RICHMAN: Sure. Anyone else. MR. WRIGHT: No other questions. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. RICHMAN: Q. You said she just gave you a chair. She gave you more than a chair, didn't she? A. A chair and the table. Q. She also gave you all of the absentee ballot request forms that were hand-fed to you, didn't she? A. They were sitting there -- MR. WRIGHT: Object to the form. MR. YOUNG: Object to the form. Q. Isn't that true? Did she give you the absentee ballot request forms, in addition to the chair and a table. A. They were made available to me in order to make the corrections. Q. They were all segregated out and given to you, weren't they. In other words, they were separated out and handed to you? A. That's correct. Q. So the Elections Supervisor's office did the segregation to assist you in your job; correct? A. They would, apparently they would just give me the absentee ballot requested forms. Q. And they used their staff and their personnel to separate out the Republican absentee ballot request forms; correct? A. I do not know how they did this. Q. Well, you didn't do it, did you? A. I didn't. No, I didn't separate them from the U.S. mail. Q. So you had to assume that somebody here in this office did separation -- MR. LEVEY: Objection. MR. WRIGHT: Objection to the form. Q. Is that a reasonable assumption or not? MR. WRIGHT: Object to the form. MR. YOUNG: Objection, speculation. MR. RICHMAN: You can answer. MR. LEVEY; you can answer the question, if you can? A. I assumed that a human being working in this office separated the absentee ballot request forms from the U.S. mail and gave them to me. Q. And did they -- When you say separated them or segregated them from the U.S. mail, do you know whether or not they were already comingled with other absentee ballot request forms prior to your arrival and then were separated? A. I don't have that information. Q. Were you ever told that? A. No. No information like that was given to me. Q. With regard to the conversation you had at which Mr. Stelling was present, would you tell us again who else was there, the specific lawyers besides Mr. Stelling, who is not a lawyer as I understand it. A. Bryant Abercombie, is that his last name? MR. LEVEY: Applegate. A. Bryant. Mr. Ken Wright, and Stewart here. Q. For purposes, again, for this with regard to what I want to take up with the judge, I do want to note that I'll be asking questions about that conversation, based upon the fact that there is no attorney-client privilege with regard to Mr. Leach -- MR. SJORSTROM: Let's get the judge on the phone. MR. RICHMAN: -- when Mr. Stelling was present. Pardon? MR. SJORSTROM: Let's get the judge on the phone now. MR. RICHMAN: We may do that as soon as I finish my other questions, if you'd like. MR. LEVEY: Mr. Stelling is my client as well. MR. RICHMAN: Pardon? MR. LEVEY: I had two clients there. We had all two clients in the room and three lawyers. Totally routine. MR. RICHMAN: It may be totally routine, but if -- Well, whatever. I'm not going to get in an argument now, we'll just take it up with the judge. MR. LEVEY: Okay. Q. With regard to your statement that the . . . that you were told by Mr. Schneck that the Supervisor of Elections wouldn't do it the way other supervisors were doing it; do you recall that statement? MR. LEVEY: I don't. Q. Words to that effect? A. What I stated indirectly or directly to you was that other supervisors went ahead and processed the applications. Q. Okay. And -- A. Minus the Supervisor of Elections in Seminole COunty. Q. So you're saying that all of the supervisors in the State of Florida went ahead and added the voter identification, missing voter identification numbers to absentee ballot request forms that had been sent out initially by the Republican party; is that your understanding? A. I can't speak for all sixty-six counties. MR. WRIGHT: I object to the form. I think it's a misstatement of his earlier answer. MR. RICHMAN: Just -- All you need to do is say object to the form. A. I can't speak for sixty-six supervisors of elections. Q. Okay. A. I was told that the ballots were . . . the request forms were processed and the voters were voting, the voters got their ballots and voted. That's all I know. Q. Were you told that other supervisors in other counties other than Seminole County, themselves, or their staff obviously, went ahead and made the changes adding the voter identification number to the Republican forms that did not contain that information? A. I don't know how they did it. I wasn't concerned about that. Q. So you weren't given any information as to how it was done in other counties? A. That's correct. Q. Were you told, though, that it were the election supervisors of other counties were cooperating to do this with regard to the Republican absentee ballots request forms? A. That's correct. My -- My -- To the best of my knowledge, the supervisors would go ahead and process the request forms, the ballots would go out to the voters and they would vote on election day. Q. Once again, you have no personal knowledge of this; correct. A. No, sir. Q. Who did you hear this from? A. Todd Schnick. Q. And did he tell you even an example of some counties that allegedly were doing this? A. No, sir.. Q. And did he tell you whether it was the election supervisors themselves who were doing it, or whether other persons were doing it in those offices? A. He didn't -- I do not know. Q. Did he tell you which counties, give you an example of any counties in which this was being done? A. No, sir. Q. You also said that with regard to Mr. Jacobs, at the time that you . . . that you saw Mr. Jacobs, that was during the canvassing period when you were here; correct? A. That's correct. Q. How were you addressed at that time? A. I was wearing shorts and a T-shirt. Q. Tell us exactly what the conversation with Mr. Jacobs was. What did he say to you, what did you say to him? A. Initial pleasantries, we just chit-chatted, we were here for twenty-nine hours. Q. Twenty-nine straight hours? A. Pretty much. The canvassing -- Minus a break here, minus a few hour break that I went home to sleep and came back. Q. How did you identify yourself to Mr. Jacobs? What did you tell him your position was? A. I never -- I never advised him of my position. Q. So you never told him that you were . . . that you were there working for the Republican party; in other words, a paid employee of the Republican party; is that correct? A. To my knowledge, I didn't identify my name or my position. Q. Did you ever tell him that you were involved in the voting, in the amendment to the absentee ballot request forms, or adding the information to the absentee ballot request forms, as you've testified? A. I never advised him that we were correcting a mistake that we made. No, I did not. Q. And did he identify himself by name to you? A. Not until the canvassing board was almost finished. Q. And where was that during the twenty-nine hour period that you're referring to? A. Same place we were the whole time. Q. No, I meant time-wise, was it the end of the twenty-nine hours, pretty much the end of the whole thing? A. Yes, sir. Q. When was it that he allegedly said that he was a Democrat lawyer? A. We started talking outside and he advised that he was a Democrat lawyer, or representing Al Gore's interest. Q. Did he tell you that he was a Democrat lawyer who was acting as an observer with regard to the recount procedure? A. My recollection is -- Q. Uh-huh. A. -- he advised me he was representing the interest of Al Gore. Q. When you say representing the interest, did he say that he was in any way retained by Al Gore, or that he was interested, obviously wanted to see Al Gore win, in the fact that he was a Democrat, so he was supporting Al Gore in the election? Do you understand the distinction? A. I understand. MR. LEVEY: Object to the form. MR. WRIGHT: Object to the form. Q. Go ahead and answer, please. A. I don't have specific conversion pieces that I can bring up to you. Q. Okay. So you really don't have any recollection that he specifically said I'm a lawyer for representing Al Gore, as opposed to I'm here as a lawyer, I'm hoping that Al Gore is going to win this, and I'm here on the recount issue; is that correct? A. Do the best of my recollection, he was representing the interest of Al Gore, the vice president of the United States. Q. When you say representing the interest, did he say he was retained by Al Gore, as opposed to being a lawyer who was interested in seeing Al Gore win? A. I don't recall the word retained. MR. WRIGHT: I object to the form of the question. Just a repeat. MR. RICHMAN: Thank you very much, sir. You want to hold off and call the Court? MR. WRIGHT: Sure. MR. RICHMAN: Find out if the court wants to resolve the attorney-client issue? MR. YOUNG: I think that would be a good idea. MR. WRIGHT: I do too. MR. SJORSTROM: She would be entertained by the abuse of our time. MR. STEWART: Pardon? MR. LEVEY: Why don't we just continue with it. Do whatever you want. MR. RICHMAN: He was the one that said let's go ahead call the Court now. I'm perfectly willing to do it tomorrow. MR. LEVEY: Well, -- MR. RICHMAN: And go ahead and continue with the depositions now. MR. SJORSTROM: I have no desire to call the Court to resolve the attorney-client privilege issue. What I do have a desire to do is stop wasting time on the attorney/-client issue. We're not going to resolve it among ourselves. MR. LEVEY: Well, let's just provide -- MR. RICHMAN: I appreciate your comments, counsel, but that's not very productive. We either call the Court or we wait and it tomorrow. You want to call the Court now? MR. SJORSTROM: Yeah, whatever is your pleasure, sir. I don't have any interest in resolving that issue. I don't think it's the appropriate place -- MR. LEVEY: Let's go off the record. MR. RICHMAN: Off the record. (Whereupon, the foregoing proceedings were terminated.)
CERTIFICATE OF OATH
STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF SEMINOLE )
I, the undersigned authority, certify that Michael Leach personally appeared before me and was duly sworn.
WITNESS my hand and official seal this 3rd day of January, 2000.
DIANNE GAGNON, CSR Notary Public
CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF SEMINOLE
I, DIANNE GAGNON, CSR, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a true and complete record of my stenographic notes.
I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action.
Dated this the 3rd day of January, 2000. DIANNE GAGNON, CSR |